
coolpal
06-01 12:03 PM
so does this bill include EB folks or not?
I assume it does.. or this thread won't be so upbeat ;)
I assume it does.. or this thread won't be so upbeat ;)
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realizeit
02-11 11:53 PM
Mr MPADAPA,
I know you have spent some time analyzing the whole stuff and came with your conclusions. At the end, if someone says that the crux of your conclusions are wrong, for an emotional person, it would be tough to take. A rational person would take it lightly and think before responding. In your immediate previous reply, you just cherry picked a quote from my previous reply and put that as my interpretation. Please do not put words into my mouth. My reply has been pasted below in its entirety.
You have campared the paragraph with NumbersUSA argument etc. Dear friend, my argument was exactly opposite to that paragraph. I think, you didn't get the meaning of the paragraph itself. My paragraph contained phrases like "If your argument is correct..", ". If the unused can be given to ..". etc, which makes the argument exactly opposite to what mentioned there. So, that means I believe exactly opposite to those arguments.
I acknowledge that you have every right to interpret the law in whichever way you want. My point is that, it really doesn't matter to all of the folks who applied in EB2 and waiting for GC. The thing that really matters is the way in which USCIS acts this year. They can act in whatever way they want. This year, if they say, there won't be any family visa wastage, we will get nothing. Contrary to that, if they see that by the end of the year there is a chance for 15K family vis wastage, they may allocate that to employment category.
To all EB2 folks out there: No need to really feel bad or happy about the analysis of Mr. MPADAPA.
My general advice to anyone who put forward an argument for propaganda and a campaign is: Don't massage the facts, don't twist the facts, don't over analyze, don't under analyze, Also don't say that your interpretation is the final verdict. Because, even if we can analyze all the immigration related laws in the whole Federal register, we may not be able to come to a final conclusion....!! Why? Because you don't have a clue what is in the field manual and internal memos of the USCIS and you don't know how they procedurely allocate spill over etc on each year. As long as USCIS and DOS can use the terms "In Anticipation..", "As per our expectations..", no one will be able to hold them accountable for the visa wastage.
MPADAPA..you may continue your argument/discussions, if you think this is a moot point. But I don't believe so.
If you can prove your initial basic argument with complete facts and details, I will openly declare, I am wrong! Your original argument was "Since the family category used up all Visa numbers in 2008, in 2009 EB2 cannot expect any spill over from Family category and hence we need to expect slow movement....".
Instead of proving the above, you may cherry pick my statements and continue to beat about the bush. I am giving up here my friend.
Good luck :)
realizeit, you just didn't get the unused visa calculation.
By the way your interpretation quoted below is exactly what numbersUSA used to claim that there is no visa available for recapture. And they used that argument to shoot down our recapture bill.
Knowing that PD's aren't going to move forward drastically, we need to start working towards some thing drastic like a bill/amendment. Or we can sit and mull over it and wait until the second week of Aug (when Sep bulletin is announced) to show our frustration.
My complete earlier reply
Still I disagree my friend. I know, law is the law! What I am disagreeing is your interpretation and conclusion.
In reality, towards the end of the Fiscal year, if USCIS/State Dept finds that visas will go unused in one category, they can use the spill over rules. So, if there are some potential unused visas in Family category they can add it to Employment category and vice versa. This will all work in the same year. It will not work or get transferred to a following year. In your initial argument, you said, because all the family visas for 2008 are completely used, we won't get anything from that category as spill over during this year (2009).
If your argument is correct, there won't be any need for recapture laws that we all are working for. If the unused can be given to the next year, no visa will get wasted. USCIS/DOS can just give the unused in family category to Employment category in the following year and vice versa.
In reality that is not the case. Visa number in one year will not flow to the next. So, your original argument is completely wrong. If there is nothing left in family category for the year 2008, that has nothing to do with the expected spill over to Employment category from family category in 2009.
In my opinion, law is complex and snippets of the law from here and there won't will not clarify anything. So, if anyone would like to be optimistic, stay there, to be pessimistic, stay there - this whole argument by MPADAPA is not enough to change your state of mind :) Just my observation!
I know you have spent some time analyzing the whole stuff and came with your conclusions. At the end, if someone says that the crux of your conclusions are wrong, for an emotional person, it would be tough to take. A rational person would take it lightly and think before responding. In your immediate previous reply, you just cherry picked a quote from my previous reply and put that as my interpretation. Please do not put words into my mouth. My reply has been pasted below in its entirety.
You have campared the paragraph with NumbersUSA argument etc. Dear friend, my argument was exactly opposite to that paragraph. I think, you didn't get the meaning of the paragraph itself. My paragraph contained phrases like "If your argument is correct..", ". If the unused can be given to ..". etc, which makes the argument exactly opposite to what mentioned there. So, that means I believe exactly opposite to those arguments.
I acknowledge that you have every right to interpret the law in whichever way you want. My point is that, it really doesn't matter to all of the folks who applied in EB2 and waiting for GC. The thing that really matters is the way in which USCIS acts this year. They can act in whatever way they want. This year, if they say, there won't be any family visa wastage, we will get nothing. Contrary to that, if they see that by the end of the year there is a chance for 15K family vis wastage, they may allocate that to employment category.
To all EB2 folks out there: No need to really feel bad or happy about the analysis of Mr. MPADAPA.
My general advice to anyone who put forward an argument for propaganda and a campaign is: Don't massage the facts, don't twist the facts, don't over analyze, don't under analyze, Also don't say that your interpretation is the final verdict. Because, even if we can analyze all the immigration related laws in the whole Federal register, we may not be able to come to a final conclusion....!! Why? Because you don't have a clue what is in the field manual and internal memos of the USCIS and you don't know how they procedurely allocate spill over etc on each year. As long as USCIS and DOS can use the terms "In Anticipation..", "As per our expectations..", no one will be able to hold them accountable for the visa wastage.
MPADAPA..you may continue your argument/discussions, if you think this is a moot point. But I don't believe so.
If you can prove your initial basic argument with complete facts and details, I will openly declare, I am wrong! Your original argument was "Since the family category used up all Visa numbers in 2008, in 2009 EB2 cannot expect any spill over from Family category and hence we need to expect slow movement....".
Instead of proving the above, you may cherry pick my statements and continue to beat about the bush. I am giving up here my friend.
Good luck :)
realizeit, you just didn't get the unused visa calculation.
By the way your interpretation quoted below is exactly what numbersUSA used to claim that there is no visa available for recapture. And they used that argument to shoot down our recapture bill.
Knowing that PD's aren't going to move forward drastically, we need to start working towards some thing drastic like a bill/amendment. Or we can sit and mull over it and wait until the second week of Aug (when Sep bulletin is announced) to show our frustration.
My complete earlier reply
Still I disagree my friend. I know, law is the law! What I am disagreeing is your interpretation and conclusion.
In reality, towards the end of the Fiscal year, if USCIS/State Dept finds that visas will go unused in one category, they can use the spill over rules. So, if there are some potential unused visas in Family category they can add it to Employment category and vice versa. This will all work in the same year. It will not work or get transferred to a following year. In your initial argument, you said, because all the family visas for 2008 are completely used, we won't get anything from that category as spill over during this year (2009).
If your argument is correct, there won't be any need for recapture laws that we all are working for. If the unused can be given to the next year, no visa will get wasted. USCIS/DOS can just give the unused in family category to Employment category in the following year and vice versa.
In reality that is not the case. Visa number in one year will not flow to the next. So, your original argument is completely wrong. If there is nothing left in family category for the year 2008, that has nothing to do with the expected spill over to Employment category from family category in 2009.
In my opinion, law is complex and snippets of the law from here and there won't will not clarify anything. So, if anyone would like to be optimistic, stay there, to be pessimistic, stay there - this whole argument by MPADAPA is not enough to change your state of mind :) Just my observation!

Eagle
12-05 02:13 PM
Easygoer,
From your reply, I get that you got your EB2 approved by equating CA to Masters degree. Can you let me know whether your bachelors degree was 3 years or 4 years?
Also, could you let me know which month and year your appeal got cleared?
Thanks a lot for your help.
From your reply, I get that you got your EB2 approved by equating CA to Masters degree. Can you let me know whether your bachelors degree was 3 years or 4 years?
Also, could you let me know which month and year your appeal got cleared?
Thanks a lot for your help.
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sushilup
02-13 07:42 AM
All the people who had LUD on 2/10 and 2/11 (WAC cases), any update?
I heard in many post that after LUD few people got RFE...some people also saying that it could be FP notice
Please update if your status online changes
Thanx
Sushil
I heard in many post that after LUD few people got RFE...some people also saying that it could be FP notice
Please update if your status online changes
Thanx
Sushil
more...

munnu77
02-21 04:55 PM
why r we wasting time in such a useless topic...
those who really want to help IV financillay and r backing off frm just some false rumours...
Go to the post Office and send a money order...so tht u dont have to worry abt anything...anyway..its a matter of time u will know all theses rumours were false...
We might succeed in ending GC retrogression...but i am sure some desi minds will retrogress for the next 100 years...
those who really want to help IV financillay and r backing off frm just some false rumours...
Go to the post Office and send a money order...so tht u dont have to worry abt anything...anyway..its a matter of time u will know all theses rumours were false...
We might succeed in ending GC retrogression...but i am sure some desi minds will retrogress for the next 100 years...

Madhuri
07-24 02:23 PM
Here's update on my cases
Self e-filed: May 30, 2008
FP: Jun 25, 2008
Card prod ordered: July 23, 2008
EB3-I / PD: Mar 2006 / I-485 - RD: Jul 2007
Will post about duration as soon as I get the cards in hand.
Self e-filed: May 30, 2008
FP: Jun 25, 2008
Card prod ordered: July 23, 2008
EB3-I / PD: Mar 2006 / I-485 - RD: Jul 2007
Will post about duration as soon as I get the cards in hand.
more...

gc_on_demand
10-29 11:38 AM
they have delayed processing time so more people will file for premium processing and they earn more money. H1b quota is not filling up and all of a sudden processing time went from 2 to 6-7 months in 1 month. Because so many people ( h1 - h4 ) might be travelling in dec - jan season. Come back in feb - march and processing time will be again 2 months.
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mhb
07-06 06:19 PM
just been informed that the newscast is going is to happen tommorow. apparently there was some "breaking" news!! guys make sure you tune in tomorrow!!
try calling CARL SEARS he is the guy who puts up these newscast.
try calling CARL SEARS he is the guy who puts up these newscast.
more...

Vsach
07-17 10:31 AM
Well it will be a big relief for us as family, my wife can pick up a job, my son is in high school...yes...we will take it!
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pkpalta
12-20 06:28 PM
Guys,
I think we should post this on http://www.immigrationportal.com and ask Rajeev Khanna or ask Mathew Oh of http://www.immigration-law.com.
I'm sure they might help us by putting up a post for this.
I think we should post this on http://www.immigrationportal.com and ask Rajeev Khanna or ask Mathew Oh of http://www.immigration-law.com.
I'm sure they might help us by putting up a post for this.
more...

mpadapa
05-13 08:35 AM
Here is a website where you can find your congressmen and senators
http://www.visi.com/juan/congress/
Key in your full zipcode (5+4)
Also you can find house representatives at http://www.house.gov/
and Senators at http://www.senate.gov/
Do find your nearest lawmakers office from the lawmakers website
software7,
would you please let me know in detail how you approached congress men and senators?
How did you get their addresses and contact numbers? I am also in the similar situation.
http://www.visi.com/juan/congress/
Key in your full zipcode (5+4)
Also you can find house representatives at http://www.house.gov/
and Senators at http://www.senate.gov/
Do find your nearest lawmakers office from the lawmakers website
software7,
would you please let me know in detail how you approached congress men and senators?
How did you get their addresses and contact numbers? I am also in the similar situation.
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rockstart
02-13 09:44 AM
I received a soft lud on my H1B approved in Nov 2007. All other cases do not have any LUD. I guess it is just the system touching these records as routine maintainence.
more...
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rssb
01-27 06:07 AM
U donno where to even start. My argument was based on relativity and "most of" theory and never was 100%.
U must be a gulti trying to defend ur region - God bless
?? :confused:
As MC and others say lets stay on topic (which is fraud) . You were the first to start and drag unrelated issues into this conversation. FYI I have good friends who are from the region and went to school with them. It does not matter where we are from , the common binding purpose we are discussing on this forum is immigration / legal immigration.
What we need is unity between people ( from various countries) and groups ( EB2, EB3 ) to work towards solving the problem on hand, which is retrogression. And not additional divisions. Who knows EB1 might get retrogressed if there are too many good people capable of that under the current rules.
People from different regions/ countries apply for legal immigration and everyone is undergoing the same thing. For general news, chit chat and adding spice there are other avenues to discuss unrelated politics ( blogs, personal pages, or tv 24/7 news channels ). If you have different topic which states what you are discussing, only interested parties can spend time reading and assimilating that useful information you have provided.
Your argument of relativity has nothing related to trivalley or what happened there.
U must be a gulti trying to defend ur region - God bless
?? :confused:
As MC and others say lets stay on topic (which is fraud) . You were the first to start and drag unrelated issues into this conversation. FYI I have good friends who are from the region and went to school with them. It does not matter where we are from , the common binding purpose we are discussing on this forum is immigration / legal immigration.
What we need is unity between people ( from various countries) and groups ( EB2, EB3 ) to work towards solving the problem on hand, which is retrogression. And not additional divisions. Who knows EB1 might get retrogressed if there are too many good people capable of that under the current rules.
People from different regions/ countries apply for legal immigration and everyone is undergoing the same thing. For general news, chit chat and adding spice there are other avenues to discuss unrelated politics ( blogs, personal pages, or tv 24/7 news channels ). If you have different topic which states what you are discussing, only interested parties can spend time reading and assimilating that useful information you have provided.
Your argument of relativity has nothing related to trivalley or what happened there.
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Sheila Danzig
02-03 02:01 PM
This particular case http://www.murthy.com/news/n_combdg.html refers to a 3 year degree + a 1 year education degree where the first degree was required for admission into the education degree program. It is not the same as a 3+2, which, however, there is an unpublished AAO case to support its equivalency to a Masters degree.
Here is the link:
http://www.murthy.com/news/n_combdg.html
Why the heck is USCIS bothered about your bachelors when your Labor clearly says Masters required? I think you have a strong case since the RFE did not mention anything about your bachelors. What is your attorney saying? why didnt your ed evaluator mention anything about your bachelors? Will it help if you could evalute your qualifications from another agency, wherein they could prove that you had enough credits and class hours in your bachelors to be equal to US 4 yr courses?
I am sure there are many helpful folks on this forum who could also guide you on your case. They may have had first hand experience in such situations. Do keep us posted.
Good luck!
Here is the link:
http://www.murthy.com/news/n_combdg.html
Why the heck is USCIS bothered about your bachelors when your Labor clearly says Masters required? I think you have a strong case since the RFE did not mention anything about your bachelors. What is your attorney saying? why didnt your ed evaluator mention anything about your bachelors? Will it help if you could evalute your qualifications from another agency, wherein they could prove that you had enough credits and class hours in your bachelors to be equal to US 4 yr courses?
I am sure there are many helpful folks on this forum who could also guide you on your case. They may have had first hand experience in such situations. Do keep us posted.
Good luck!
more...
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paskal
07-10 08:45 PM
http://www.afroarticles.com/article-dashboard/Article/CNN-s-Lou-Dobbs---The-Minister-of--Propaganda-and-Enlightenment-/23562
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logiclife
05-25 10:47 AM
Canada has the stupidest immigration policy from the standpoint of policy maker if you ask me.
Dont get me wrong. It works great for us. For the immigrant. You get greencard on an independent petition(self-petition) and adjudicated based on points. And there is no numerical cap.
Guess what? It works great for everyone in the world, everyone has flocked there and caused and over supply of labor and 9% or higher unemployment. The way they count unemployment is also very Enron-like. They dont count people receiving unemployment benefits as unemployed. And then Jim Volpe will post on website "Canada has unemployment rate of 5-6%".
Anyways, if you want to immigrate to a country, you want to go where there is low unemployment. That is the biggest criteria for choice. USA's system HAS HUGE FLAWS. The employer petition-system creates a breeding ground for exploitation and the numerical cap is too low that results in delays that are unbearable. And yes, the DOL has come really close to making people commit suicide because of labor backlogs. But then, only the employer petition system can actually give greencards to THOSE WHO CAN SURVIVE and get jobs in the economy and not give greencards just because they scored points.
I know I will receive a lot of flak as I have before, and I wish there was points based system here in USA too with self-petition option like Canada, but trust me, if that happens, then this country will be full of people with greatest points,(obtained thru fake degrees and Ph.Ds from the whole world) and really really make the nightmares of NumbersUSA and FAIR become true, and it wont be worth living.
US systems needs major rework and increase in quota and increase in efficiency at USCIS and DOL. But getting rid of employer petition is going to make USA like Canada where Ph.Ds and doctors drive cabs and work in restaurants, but every one of those doctors and engineers would have greencard in 1 year.
Dont get me wrong. It works great for us. For the immigrant. You get greencard on an independent petition(self-petition) and adjudicated based on points. And there is no numerical cap.
Guess what? It works great for everyone in the world, everyone has flocked there and caused and over supply of labor and 9% or higher unemployment. The way they count unemployment is also very Enron-like. They dont count people receiving unemployment benefits as unemployed. And then Jim Volpe will post on website "Canada has unemployment rate of 5-6%".
Anyways, if you want to immigrate to a country, you want to go where there is low unemployment. That is the biggest criteria for choice. USA's system HAS HUGE FLAWS. The employer petition-system creates a breeding ground for exploitation and the numerical cap is too low that results in delays that are unbearable. And yes, the DOL has come really close to making people commit suicide because of labor backlogs. But then, only the employer petition system can actually give greencards to THOSE WHO CAN SURVIVE and get jobs in the economy and not give greencards just because they scored points.
I know I will receive a lot of flak as I have before, and I wish there was points based system here in USA too with self-petition option like Canada, but trust me, if that happens, then this country will be full of people with greatest points,(obtained thru fake degrees and Ph.Ds from the whole world) and really really make the nightmares of NumbersUSA and FAIR become true, and it wont be worth living.
US systems needs major rework and increase in quota and increase in efficiency at USCIS and DOL. But getting rid of employer petition is going to make USA like Canada where Ph.Ds and doctors drive cabs and work in restaurants, but every one of those doctors and engineers would have greencard in 1 year.
more...
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svr_76
03-11 10:49 PM
Are you so powerful to make all these changes ? You don't have to do so many things for me. Just get me a GC. I won't ask for anything else from you.
Take it easy.
I think these baby steps on enforcing due-diligence will get us all there....
Take it easy.
I think these baby steps on enforcing due-diligence will get us all there....
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alex99
07-13 03:09 PM
The Senate is currently considering the FY 2008 Department of Defense Authorization (H.R. 1585). Senators Specter and Leahy have offered the Habeas Corpus Restoration Act as an amendment to the bill; and Senators Durbin, Hagel, and Lugar are planning to offer the DREAM Act as an amendment. Call your senators now and urge them to vote YES on these amendments!
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nogreen4decade
07-16 06:35 PM
Guys, there is real substance to what oscarzumaran says as well......
It is not fair to shout at him unless u understand the issue bereft of any emotions.
I think the AZ is the right thing to force illegal immigrants out of AZ since its bringing the economy down to its knees.
Moreover the AZ law is excatly the same as the current Federal law, its just that AZ is implementing it thru a state law, so why shd the feds object to it.
If you folks think that AZ law is wrong then why should other sanctuary states who prevent illegals from been sent back be allowed to pre-empt the fed law , even these states should be challenged.
We legal citizens are required by fed law to carry legal docs at any time(even though u may not like it), AZ is just enforcing the law
IV is all about legal immigration and does not support illegal immigration as I know it, Its a folly to think that if we support the feds they will support legal immigration and give GC's faster......Can anyone be 100% sure that the politicians will not drop the legal provisions from CIR just to get some votes to get the illegal immigrations laws in CIR thru......havent u seen how the healthcare bill was passed
How could you all support illegals when u are here legally? would you let pakistanis enter India without Visas or let palestines into Isreal just like that?, would Mexico allow Asians into their country just like that, heck NO.
Stop criticizing folks for stating their point of view, each one has a right to his opinion, so does oscarzumaran.
I dont care if you give some reds, hope oscarzumaran will compensate with some greens :)
It is not about the objective of the law. It is about intentions behind it and the effectiveness of it. Sure, throw illegals out.. But make sure noone who are following the law is suffered because of another law. You live here, then you know! SB1070 is not the way to go.
Ask yourself this question. How many American citizens, you have come across, even know about legal immigration process? This definitely applies to the police!
It is not fair to shout at him unless u understand the issue bereft of any emotions.
I think the AZ is the right thing to force illegal immigrants out of AZ since its bringing the economy down to its knees.
Moreover the AZ law is excatly the same as the current Federal law, its just that AZ is implementing it thru a state law, so why shd the feds object to it.
If you folks think that AZ law is wrong then why should other sanctuary states who prevent illegals from been sent back be allowed to pre-empt the fed law , even these states should be challenged.
We legal citizens are required by fed law to carry legal docs at any time(even though u may not like it), AZ is just enforcing the law
IV is all about legal immigration and does not support illegal immigration as I know it, Its a folly to think that if we support the feds they will support legal immigration and give GC's faster......Can anyone be 100% sure that the politicians will not drop the legal provisions from CIR just to get some votes to get the illegal immigrations laws in CIR thru......havent u seen how the healthcare bill was passed
How could you all support illegals when u are here legally? would you let pakistanis enter India without Visas or let palestines into Isreal just like that?, would Mexico allow Asians into their country just like that, heck NO.
Stop criticizing folks for stating their point of view, each one has a right to his opinion, so does oscarzumaran.
I dont care if you give some reds, hope oscarzumaran will compensate with some greens :)
It is not about the objective of the law. It is about intentions behind it and the effectiveness of it. Sure, throw illegals out.. But make sure noone who are following the law is suffered because of another law. You live here, then you know! SB1070 is not the way to go.
Ask yourself this question. How many American citizens, you have come across, even know about legal immigration process? This definitely applies to the police!
virald
11-06 04:26 PM
EAD, AP & FP notice are sent directly to the applicant. If you see the status of AP as document mailed then you should get within 2/3 days as they send by DHL. I got mine in 2 days, my wife also got in 2 days
This isn't neccesarily true for AP. I saw the same status, but my lawyer got AP approvals.
This isn't neccesarily true for AP. I saw the same status, but my lawyer got AP approvals.
lskreddy
06-13 12:26 PM
Every one has his own vantage point. Mark K has his own and the others who represented for legal immigration has their own. Mark K's argument to only allow the so called 'Einstein caliber" people speaks volumes about how he has simplified the problem.
Sitting on a high position in an immigration research facility does not necessarily mean that he is abreast with the technological needs. From his arguments, he certainly has proven that he has very little or no idea of where the resource needs are.
Everyone of us are here because there is room for us to work. If his research shows that there are more US people who will fill our shoes, then I am sure the market needs would govern the numbers. For all the anti's who cite articles about how low paid we are, how less qualified we are, they should research to complete the full circle. They leave it half-hearted, its not as if they don't know, they just want to stick on to the rhetoric.
Even to entertain Mark K's idea about bringing the so called cream of the crop, there has to be proven ways to identify who these people are. One way of doing it is to allow people to come here on F1, prove their worth in research, work for a few years. One does not become an EB1 qualified before he steps into the country, he probably climbs his way up to that qualification. Some may succeed, some may fail. To selectively choose the best and expel the rest would mean disaster for the country. These are human lives we are talking about, not parts in a process control factory where you can chuck as and when you need as it does not meet 'specifications'.
He has blinders on, and that will never change. You can't debate a person who has already decided on what the outcome. The most amusing part personally for me is that most of the anti-legal folks accuse the entire industry of conspiring to screw their own. I can see how one or two companies to do that, but to underline that the entire system is geared towards raping their own is blasphemous to say the least.
Sitting on a high position in an immigration research facility does not necessarily mean that he is abreast with the technological needs. From his arguments, he certainly has proven that he has very little or no idea of where the resource needs are.
Everyone of us are here because there is room for us to work. If his research shows that there are more US people who will fill our shoes, then I am sure the market needs would govern the numbers. For all the anti's who cite articles about how low paid we are, how less qualified we are, they should research to complete the full circle. They leave it half-hearted, its not as if they don't know, they just want to stick on to the rhetoric.
Even to entertain Mark K's idea about bringing the so called cream of the crop, there has to be proven ways to identify who these people are. One way of doing it is to allow people to come here on F1, prove their worth in research, work for a few years. One does not become an EB1 qualified before he steps into the country, he probably climbs his way up to that qualification. Some may succeed, some may fail. To selectively choose the best and expel the rest would mean disaster for the country. These are human lives we are talking about, not parts in a process control factory where you can chuck as and when you need as it does not meet 'specifications'.
He has blinders on, and that will never change. You can't debate a person who has already decided on what the outcome. The most amusing part personally for me is that most of the anti-legal folks accuse the entire industry of conspiring to screw their own. I can see how one or two companies to do that, but to underline that the entire system is geared towards raping their own is blasphemous to say the least.

